Importance of camera work

[DR]

How important for you is the work behind the camera in the production of our favorite videos?

As far as I'm concerned, I prefer it the old fashioned way: steady camera, not too much movement, reasonable usage of zoom function.

In my opinion, good examples of nice camera work are the sites where there's no crazy and fast walking around with the camera in hand, and no unnecessary and frequent zoom ins and outs. The camera typically focuses on what really matters, showing us the hold, while it's being applied.

Good examples would be Scissor Vixens, Scissor Foxes, Fem Wrestling Rooms, and so many others.

On the other hand, camera work at Mixed Wrestling Zone and Female Wrestling Zone, for example, drives me crazy. Whoever runs the camera never stops walking around and zooming in. Those close ups are completely killing it for me. I used to be a member of the Female Wrestling Zone in the past, and I really loved their work. What changed, and why, beats me.

It would be interesting to hear what other members think about this, as I'm sure that a lot of you may not share my opinion.

[tvwatcher38]

Let me be the first to reply, I pretty much agree with you on all of your points.
The unnecessary talking being done from behind the camera & to the person behind the camera are a major sticking points with me. It can definitely take from my enjoyment of the video or clips that I am watching, whether it's a competitive or strictly story line driven match. But the companies that you gave as good examples of camera work are also somewhat guilty of over talking from behind the camera.

Surprisingly I don't mind it so much from some of the sv vids I have (even with Drew's smart ass comments) i.e. the savage scissor series. But with sf pressure gauge series  & others from them I do, maybe because there is only one opponent versus sv that tend to have a couple, I honestly don't know cause it's not like Venus doesn't try.

As far as camera movement, close ups, zooms, etc., you're right that unnecessary movement & close ups can be a distraction. Timing can be everything as there have been times where I wished they had zoomed or gotten closer & other times when they had gotten closer it was ruined because the hold wasn't applied tightly enough or looked sexier further away.

Angles & lighting can also be key factors in this as well. How many times have you seen a light stand in videos that are story line driven or another model in the same room waiting for the shoot to be over ? ( I'm looking at you sv !)

While there can be some good things from far away, I do traditionally like for the camera work to be as close up as possible & that can also cut down on the need for frequent zoom in & out. But there are times where further is better, i.e.- doing an acrobatic movement or several, incorporating your surroundings into the holds that are applied, etc.

That's my long rant on the subject.

[voayer]

Copying my posts from the other topic:

Don't listen to these haters, man. I for one am partial to most F v F and mixed Japanese videos as Japanese women are much more skillful than any other nationality when it comes to wrestling. They actually use pro wrestling slams and holds in their videos as opposed to other women that only scissoring their opponents until the end of time because that's the only move most other women know. Which is 98% of the content on this or any fetish wrestling site.

Please keep doing your thing and posting variety like a select few do around here.

It's not about Japanese girls. They are mostly cute and mostly skilled.
It's about Japanese producers, video editors and camera guys.

Sometimes i watch certain JAV video, asking myself: "was this camera dude born as an idiot, or he is paid and have instruction to be an idiot?" Awful camera angles from below and a distance of 3 feet from the action. Geeeez. Missing all interesting scenes.

Well...maybe is this so because of cultural differences. Maybe they see, feel and enjoy different as we. Maybe they appreciate this close POV shots...i don't know.

And on the end....they are not all producers the same. Few hundret producers works in Japan. Some of them are very decent...good actually. But some of them sucks. Is no general recipe to judge Japan movies. Depends from producer to producer. 

Don't forget the censorship. The camera dude moves close, close and closer until the screen is a bunch of pixels. I don't get this. You make a wrestling video (okay, let's face it, it's a sex video), why do you cover up all the interesting parts? Personally, I am pretty much done with the Japanese companies. The only thing they do right is interesting thumbnail images and DVD covers. That's it. And, usually, their matches are way too long (1h+) and, subsequently, the file sizes are huge. Classic example of quantity over quality. There are some interesting matches where the girls know what they are doing, but even then, 99% of the time the guys are terrible and ruin everything. FF matches are marginally better, except when both girls are knowledgeable.

Well, about censorship....all videos meant for Japanese market must be censored. It's a law there and we can't do much about this. But.....there are still good companies there. Those who realize, that good camera work is of the essence.
The best think for users is to do their own list of "acceptable" companies and ignore the others.  IMHO

Oh, since you mentioned awful camera angles, have you watched any match from ScissorFoxes? They have great girls, but those camera angles that force you to tilt you head in order understand what is going on were the cause of a  headache more than once.

[ChicagoAlan]

I guess I have a different opinion than most of you guys.  My biggest pet peeve is when the camera is left on a tripod and there are NO closeups of the action.  It's like you're just a fly on the wall watching the action from a distance.
This used to really bug me with the early Reality Girl videos.  There are some early videos of the amazing Ivey which to me are ruined because of the tripod and sometimes the action gets totally out of frame. 

Of course I agree that there are camera operators who appear that they're trying to win some kind of Academy Award for photography when they should just record the action, but if I can tell from the previews that the camera is just fixed I wouldn't buy the video.

[DR]

I most definitely agree about the camera on a tripod. It is a big deterrent for me too. But again, on the other hand, crazy closeups and constant walking around with the camera, which almost makes me dizzy, are strong enough reasons for me to stay away.

I have already mentioned Fem Wrestling Rooms, and while not all of their videos are to my liking (most of them I love. btw), I find their camera work to be exemplary. Very good switching between angles, nice and steady closeups, good views of both the "tormentor's" and the "victim's" faces. What is certainly very helpful here is the fact that these are scripted videos, where the holds can last pretty much forever, which gives a great opportunity to show us all these different angles.

In a competitive, or a semi-competitive fight, things are a lot tougher to catch properly. That is why the camera work has to be perfect, in order to be able to show us all the action. To me, this means less closeups, more wide angles, and less moving around. Otherwise, you may miss a transition between holds, or even the moment of submission. Numerous times I've seen this in MWZ and FWZ videos.

[supaflan]

Does anybody else get really annoyed when the camera has a great view of a hold and then suddenly it shifts to a hyper close-up of the guy's face?

Like, I appreciate knowing that the women is legitimately hurting him, but when you're jerking it, the last thing you want is the whole screen to suddenly become the dude's face and ruin your momentum, ya know?

[DR]

Does anybody else get really annoyed when the camera has a great view of a hold and then suddenly it shifts to a hyper close-up of the guy's face?

Like, I appreciate knowing that the women is legitimately hurting him, but when you're jerking it, the last thing you want is the whole screen to suddenly become the dude's face and ruin your momentum, ya know?

Yup, that is one of the biggest pet peeves for me.

[BillS]

Does anybody else get really annoyed when the camera has a great view of a hold and then suddenly it shifts to a hyper close-up of the guy's face?

Like, I appreciate knowing that the women is legitimately hurting him, but when you're jerking it, the last thing you want is the whole screen to suddenly become the dude's face and ruin your momentum, ya know?

Yup, that is one of the biggest pet peeves for me.

Yes, my biggest peeve too. I don't like zoom ins in general. I'd much rather see her legitimately hurting him, whilst being able to see the full length of her legs (and feet), rather than just a little bit of her flesh and her opponent's head.

[wrespet]

I like povs, close ups, low angles like these

[BillS]

Does anybody else get really annoyed when the camera has a great view of a hold and then suddenly it shifts to a hyper close-up of the guy's face?

Like, I appreciate knowing that the women is legitimately hurting him, but when you're jerking it, the last thing you want is the whole screen to suddenly become the dude's face and ruin your momentum, ya know?

I thought about this thread earlier today after I was, er, enjoying my momentum, before finding it interrupted, much to my miffment...

You've got a lovely female grappling a male into submission, you're imagining it was you in his place (or wishing it was!) and gaining your momentum (as Supaflan so elegantly described it), she gets a submission out of him after they've struggled, and you're very nearly there. And some idiot cameraman suddenly decides to focus on the man lying there after the submission, rather than the gorgeous female who has made him submit to her, and who is the main interest in the video. What sort of idiot does that??? We're watching the video to enjoy the female after all, not the man. Don't they realise that?!?